Presentation and Interactive Session - Thinnai
Event: A Presentation
and Discussion on the knowledge wealth that India ha(s)d
Date: 4th July, 2004
Resource Person: Sri. Hari, Smt. Swathi, Bharat Gyan - a venture
to explore and understand India's rich heritage
Contents of Report:
1. About THINNAI
2. Introduction to Today's Session -
Bharat Gyan
3. Capsule "Time and Evolution"
4. Discussions
5. Comments
by Ram, Chief, Samanvaya - Science, Rationality, Religion, Tradition
and Knowledge in the Indian Context
THINNAI
The story of THINNAI and how it started was narrated briefly to the
group by Priya. The THINNAI forum was created for young individuals
to have their own space to explore and understand contemporary social
issues. The idea for an informal forum that would concentrate on the
process through which we perceive and digest issues of current relevance
came when such an attempt was made to analyse the Gujarat communal riots
in April 2002. Since then the forum has evolved to a dynamic entity
constituting of many individuals from all walks of life in search of
answers and willing to give the time for it, as well as activists and
alternate thinkers experimenting with new ideas willing to share their
learning and experiences. The Forum has discussed a range of issues
including environmental pollution and struggles / movements, current
system of education in India, interlinking of rivers, organic farming,
and 'Golden' rice.
Introduction
The interest in the past of India and our ancient systems of thought
and knowledge has increased in the recent times, be it among the scholars
or researchers, students, activists, politicians or the society at large.
There are now many studies, researches, other endeavours ongoing to
look into our past. "How are these relevant today?, Would they
give India solutions for her problems today?, Why can't we leave the
past in the past?" are only few of the questions that are raised.
Notwithstanding the reasons or relevance of such an interest in the
past, it is obvious that this has created a stir, raised questions and
a process of re-looking at ourselves as a society and nation. The THINNAI
forum as part of its own process of understanding the impact of collating
such material and dissemination of this knowledge on society and strengthen
it met with a very interesting team who have started a unique initiative
to bring out the wealth of India's past - Bharath Gyan.
Bharath Gyan is an effort by Sri. Hari, Marketing Division Head, Eurocon
Tiles and his wife, Smt. Swathi, Senior Software professional, Convansys,
to collate information on the various aspects of knowledge in ancient
India and present it through attractive multimedia so that it can be
quickly and effectively grasped by a wide audience. Their travel to
over 30 countries together and interaction with the natives of those
countries inspired them to look into their own (India) past and identity.
The different presentation topics like administration and management,
Vimana, Metallurgy, Warfare, Sports, Water management, Law, Agriculture,
Education, Trade etc were browsed through and it was decided to explore
'Time and Evolution'.
Presentation of "Time and Evolution"
A summary of the presentations and concepts explored:
The presentation started with a brief explanation and discussion of
the modern and ancient Indian concepts of Time, and their respective
Natures. Sri. Hari explained through the course of his presentation
that, to understand the Indian concept of Time (Kaal) one would have
to go beyond the limited framework of days and years. Kaal for Indians
is without a beginning and end and is cyclical in nature unlike the
modern concept, according to which Time moves forward in a linear fashion.
The basic Time unit span is 4,32,000 which is calculated on the basis
of the orbital repeat position - i.e. after every 4,32,000 years we
achieve the same orbital position. Thus there are different Time Spans
for different galaxies, planets and so on.
The Indian calendar, Sankalpa is one of the many oral traditions that
we as a society have followed. Our millions across the length and breadth
of India do not hang the calendar on the wall, but chant it every morning.
With every cycle, the world destroys and recreates itself - here is
the concept of laya and pralaya.
The presentation could not be completed within the given time, since
it provoked stirred and intense discussions ranging over many related
issues. It was decided that another session should be planned to complete
the exploration of this section.
Discussions
Outdated?: Relevance of this kind of knowledge in today's world:
The immediate question among the group present was how is this kind
of knowledge relevant to today's world. A discussion on 'Ramarajya'
ensued while browsing through the 'Administration and Management' capsule,
and the Management people in the group were very sceptic as to how this
kind of knowledge be classified as management. Similarly, at least one
in the group simply could not relate to the cyclical passage of Time
as it was obvious that Time moved forward and Time gone does not come
back again.
Basis of the calendar and this view of Time: A question raised
was the basis of this concept of Time and the Indian calendar (sankalpa)
and how did these years and figures come about.
Cyclical Time Vs Linear passage of Time: The cyclical nature
of Time was discussed at some length as most participants questioned
this aspect. The argument was that Time cannot repeat itself and hence
is not cyclical. Since the allegorical representation of Time's movement
was that of a rotating and moving wheel, the participants settled for
the 'curvilinear' motion of Time, i.e. a simultaneous linear movement
of a circular motion as the reference point is always moving forward.
Scientific Reason, Research and Validation: The scientific reasoning
for all the concepts was also discussed beginning with the scientific
explanation of the orbital cycle and unit span of 4,32,000. It was the
majority opinion that the modern scientific results were accurate and
the ancient calculations have to be endorsed by modern science. Following
this, it was a taken that the similarities in any concepts between modern
and ancient Indian concepts would mean that the ancients can be accepted
and any difference would mean that the ancient knowledge was without
adequate study and investigation and hence inaccurate. Though, Sri.
Hari added the observation that while the figures, calculations and
conclusions of the modern scientists are dynamic and keep changing with
every new study, ours are fixed and already written down for the world
in our texts. There was also a debate on our records and historical
evidences and that Indians were not good at recording and classifying
information / knowledge. Here there was a different opinion stated that
we did have the oral tradition and that simply because we had other
different ways of recording, systems of classifying and passing on information
from one generation to next does not make these inferior. There was
also one opinion stated that as a culture we did not spread knowledge,
and that the intelligentsia lived in a completely different world from
the common man.
Study of ancient Indian schools
of thought
Consistently stated by Smt. Swathi was that the first step is to look
into these systems of knowledge, leave aside questioning and challenging
them. Only if all the information can be dug out and given a fair chance,
can validation be possible. The idea is that our ancestors have come
up with these derivations, conclusions, knowledge and the thrust is
to explore all these and put them forward for researchers and scholars
to take up and study. Only if enough study is taken up, can we question,
analyse, criticise and so on. At the moment there is only the domination
of one school of thought and this is carried forward. Here she also
said that it is important who are the people who take up these studies.
A native of India will have a different context and framework to study
from and hence his interpretations and conclusions will be different
from the one who comes from elsewhere in the world to study our past.
Not Religion, but Science
An idea discussed was that though these concepts are all found in our
religious texts and are chanted, intoned and repeated throughout the
country in the name of religion, they are actually not religion or prayer.
They are purely science. Thus Indian thought expounded through the media
of religious texts is actually scientific. Here, Sri. Hari stated that
"All Indian rishis and munis were all pure scientists with each
one having written a treatise in some science or the other."
Please read on for Comments from Ram, Chief, SAMANVAYA